This is time pop, a podcast that discusses time travel and pop culture

Hello? Hello. If you can hear this, it’s not too late. I’ve returned to warn you. This is time pop, a podcast that discusses time travel and pop culture. There are spoilers. I’ve seen the future, and nothing is sacred to these folks. Your past, present and future are sure to be ruined. Even if you could go back in time as I have, you will never forget what you are about to hear. You’ve been warned. This is time pop.

Uh, wow.

Chrono knots. As we guide you through the experience of time travel, using pop culture as our toothless grin, we will be your constants.

Does the light cause you to sneeze? I don’t think so

I am Des, and I’m about to sneeze. I’m Ari, and this is time pop. Oh, I said it too fast.

This was awesome. Got excited. And this is time pop. Well, other than your. Do you have any allergies or does the light just catch you just right?

No, I just had to sneeze. You know, you get your one sneeze a day.

Does the light cause you to sneeze?

I don’t think so. Is that a thing?

Very much so. I forget what it’s called. It’s got something. And, uh, it is genetic, so my mom has it and I have it. It comes in handy when you almost have to sneeze. I can step outside, get it done, but then, yeah, if I’ve been inside all day and I come out, it just pulls it right out of me.

Interesting.

Yeah, the human bodies.

I’ve heard people who, when they eat chocolate, they sneeze, but I’ve never heard the light thing.

That’s weird.

Yeah, people are weird.

The chocolate, that’s very interesting to me. The light makes sense because it seems like it’s all connected to your brain. It’s all nose, eyes, your ears. Like that whole. All those tunnels are connected somehow, some way. That almost makes sense. But how chocolate sneaks in there. Fascinating. Uh, this has been our sneeze cast. We’ll talk to you next week for our cough cast.

We are talking about the time travel movie twelve Monkeys

What are we actually talking about today, Ari?

Yeah, we are actually talking about the time travel movie twelve Monkeys.

Very convenient. When you suggested this, were you thinking, oh, let’s get some Bruce on Bruce action, or was it just there on the tip of your tongue? Anyways.

Oh, because we did Bruce Willis last week. No, I just liked this movie and wanted to talk about it.

Well, here we are. Let’s talk about it. I will, um, jump into some facts here so Ari can get into her overview. And then we will get funky.

The film had a limited release with a major release January 5, 1996

We watched twelve monkeys, 129 minutes, rated r. It was very interesting. I dove into this way too much the release date, because that’s usually just such a simple thing to find out. But I kept seeing 95 and 96. So in December 29, 1995, it had a limited release with the major release January 5, 1996. That’s when it reached most of us, written by Terry Gilliam of Monty Python fame. And he also directed Brazil and Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Have you seen fear and loathing?

I think so.

So, Terry Gilliam, um, I want to watch that again just for his style. It was interesting to watch will watch this movie, and you could tell he was trying to make too much out of some of the camera angles and shots. And it’s like, no, that’s just Terry Gilliam’s mind at work, just kind of framing his shots. He sees fit.

One of the writers credited for this is Chris Marker, who directed Legiti

One of the writers credited for this is Chris Marker, who directed Legiti, which I’m sure I am destroying that. I’ll talk a little bit more about that in a little while. The short story, the 1962 short french film that this story was based on. The writers of the script were David and Jeanette Peoples, which David wrote Blade Runner, and then he also helped write some of the twelve Monkeys tv series. And I expected to see them. Most husband, uh, and wife teams, once they start working together, they just always work together. But she wasn’t credited on too much. So I don’t know, maybe she was a fan of the short film or something, because she was very involved in this, starring Bruce Willis, as stated before, of moonlighting and Hudson Hawk fame. And he was also in a little film called Looper. Madeline Stowe, who that name rings such a bell. I expected to go down a rabbit hole with her, but she’s been in plenty of stuff, but not as much as I recognized that I thought. But she’s awesome. Uh, Brad Pitt from the hit tv series growing pains, apparently he was on an episode of Growing Pains, Thelma and Louise, and he was Floyd in true romance, which is where I love him from so much. Also Christopher Plummer and David Morse, some people that I recognize very much. And their credits go on and on and just had to mention them because why not?

Terry Gilliam’s initial casting choices were Nick Nolte and Jeff Bridges

Terry Gilliam’s initial casting choices were Nick Nolte and Jeff Bridges for the parts of Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt.

Wow.

Yeah. And forgetting for a minute that this was made in 1995, my first thought was, uh, I thought older gentlemen I didn’t really feel like would have played very well. But I forget 95, those two guys were in prime ages. But I feel like the energy of Brad Pitt, especially him, really makes, uh, that character. I don’t know if Jeff Bridges would have. I mean, I’m sure he would have done his own little weird z’s.

Yeah. I could see Jeff Bridges doing the I love.

I forget how many mannerisms I picked up from Brad Pitt in this film. I do the little laugh that he does.

Really?

I forgot. I still do that sometimes when I’m kind of fake laughing, and I forgot where that came from in watching this movie. That has just entered my vernacular. Uh, the music by Paul Buckmaster. Because this score is so amazing and so awesome. I expected to see him come up in more other things that I recognize, just because as soon as I watch this movie, I immediately wanted to hire him to score my film. But, uh, rotten tomatoes, critics, 89 audience, 88. So a nice grouping there.

There was a moment where this was kind of an unofficial trilogy

It’s interesting. So you said you haven’t seen Brazil.

No.

Have you seen the zero theorem?

No.

So I didn’t do as much investigating in those films. I want to watch Brazil. It always comes up as a. If you like movies, get off your ass and see Brazil.

Just movies in general.

Yeah, well, that’s definitely, I think, something that would be referred to as a film. But anyway, so there was a, uh, moment where this was kind of an unofficial trilogy, the Brazil twelve monkey, zero theorem trilogy, which I think is more of a trilogy based on visual, uh, similarities. Yeah, I don’t think the stories actually go together as much as they. Terry Gilliam said it was never really meant to be a trilogy, but Brazil and twelve monkeys kind of had enough together that. And when zero theorem came out, a lot of people pieced it together as an unofficial trilogy. And I don’t know how Terry thought he was going to get away with this, because they ended up being in a huge lawsuit for the chair that Bruce Willis sits in when he’s being interrogated in the future. That chair that goes up. And then the eye in the was. There is an architect named Labeus Labaeus woods for his artwork, the neomechanical tower chamber. And when you look this up online, it’s exactly that. It’s crazy that they thought they were going to get away with it without giving this guy his credit.

It’s just a chair that raises up.

No. When you see pictures of this art piece, the eye in the sky is there, too. Uh, it’s totally developed as this futuristic interrogation device, almost is what it looks like, and it’s crazy similar. I expected to look it up and think the same thing you did, like, really just putting a chair up in the air is enough. But no, he ended up getting paid a nice, healthy six figure sum for, uh, the lawsuit. For the lawsuit of that. Wow. Yeah. There’s a cut of this movie that has it taken out and then they’ve thankfully, uh, got that figured out. Those are the facts. Now we’re going to move on to Ari’s overview.

The movie starts out with Bruce Willis as a prisoner in the future

All right, so let’s talk about what this movie is about. This movie is set in 19. Well, first of all, when you first watch the movie, there’s a quote that pops up on the screen that says 5 billion people will die from a deadly virus in 1997. Um, and then it says something else and I forget what it was. And so this movie starts out in 90. Well, they don’t really say what year it is in the future.

Is that the first shot we see is in the.

Where he’s in the jail?

Yeah. That’s not ninety s. Yeah, we don’t.

Know what year that is.

Someone figured it out. I don’t know how official this is, but I noticed in a couple of places, and I think they just checked his age and did the math. 2035.

Okay. Because Bruce Willis is a kid in the airport witnessing.

I’m sorry, I forget that’s the first scene of the movie in the airport. So it does start in the 90s.

Well, I mean, that part’s just a dream. I believe it’s. Anyway, the movie starts out with Bruce Willis as a prisoner in the future in an underground post apocalyptic world where everyone, the 5 billion people, have already died and everyone lives underground. And animals have taken over the surface and people don’t live up there anymore because they all died from this virus. We see Bruce as a prisoner. He volunteers. Or that. He doesn’t really volunteer. They just force him to put on this futuristic hazmat suit and go up to the surface. It’s covered in snow. It’s post apocalyptic, which is cool. I like post apocalyptic scenarios and movies. And you see him trying to collect bugs and you see like a lion running around and a bear. And then he makes it back. And then they say they’re going to send him to the future, or. Sorry, they’re going to send him to the past.

Do they say that? Or do they just say, we have an extra special mission for you?

Yeah, they don’t really tell him. They say, you’re going to volunteer again and you’re going to do this thing. And while Bruce is up on the surface, he saw a sign that says, we did it in a, um, symbol for something called twelve Monkeys. So then he quote, unquote, volunteers for this next part where they are going to send him to 1996 to gather as much information and maybe samples as he can, because that is when the virus was originally released. And all these underground scientists are trying to follow this strain and figure out how they’re going to help themselves. So they send him, and he appears in 1990, and he’s instantly captured and brought to an insane asylum because he’s spouting off crazy things like he has to make a phone call and people are going to die, and crazy things like that. So he’s put into the nut house, the loony bin.

James Cole is interviewed by scientists in an underground post apocalyptic world

And then in my notes, I just put Brad exclamation point. Because he’s so great in this movie.

He’s so good.

Very well cast.

I had actually forgotten he was in this. When we were getting ready to watch this movie, I was like, oh, yeah, this will be good. And then right before I press play, I just got this image of Brad Pin.

Yeah, crazy, crazy Brad. He’s one of the best parts about this movie.

Forget how quickly we get to him, too. I was expecting him to come in the second half, or this movie in general just moved a lot quicker than I remember it.

So crazy Brad befriends Bruce, whose name.

In the movie is Cole? James. Oh, Brad Pitt.

No, you’re right. James Cole. Brad.

James Cole.

Bruce Willis’s name in the movie is James Cole, and Brad’s name is Jeffrey. So Jeffrey befriends James Cole and kind of shows him around. And eventually things happen and they lock. I keep just wanting to call him Bruce. They lock James Cole in a room, tied to a chair, pumped up with drugs. But he just disappears. He vanishes. And then we see James Cole back in his underground post apocalyptic, post apocalyptic world. And kind of cut out through all these scenes. This first part of the movie, we keep seeing a flashback or like a dream like scene of a young boy in an airport seeing a man get shot. A man running and getting shot. Another man carrying a briefcase. A blonde woman running after the man that gets shot. You kind of see this over and over again. You don’t really understand what’s going on. You do understand that the little boy is Bruce, or, sorry, James. Yeah, you get, like, they close up on the eyes. They’re the same color. You understand the little boy is James Cole. We don’t understand anything more than that. So James is being interviewed by all these scientists in the underground post apocalyptic world.

They are. I just thought it was interesting because I don’t know if I would have picked up on this if I didn’t have the closed captions on, but they are. Maybe they’re labeled in front of them and I wasn’t paying attention. But they are definitely a botanist, zoologist, geologist, astrophysicist and a microbiologist. So they are hitting all areas of science while they interview Mr. Cole in the.

So where did it say that it did end up?

In IMDb. But if I hadn’t had the closed captions on, I don’t think I would have picked up on it.

Oh, yeah, because didn’t. Okay. So while they are interviewing him, they show him a picture and says, have you seen this man? And it’s a picture of Brad Pitt or Jeffrey. And, um, James says yes. And it’s kind of implied that he is the leader of this twelve monkey group that they think released this virus that killed all these people.

Because at this point, I think James knows that Jeffrey’s dad is. Do they know that he’s the big wig at this point?

At this point I’m not sure, but we’ll tell you anyway. You’ve probably seen this movie, my listeners.

Well, just the fact that. Why, even though Jeffrey is the leader of the Twelve Monkeys, the reason that he is pinpointed as an important part is because of his relationship with his father. Right?

So Jeffrey’s father is some famous scientist who deals in viruses. And so they think that Jeffrey got the virus from his dad and released it and killed all these people. So then the panel of scientists say they’re going to send him to 1996. Now, before it was a mistake. They send him to 1990. Oh, yeah. And back in 1990, James Cole befriends his psychiatrist, a lady doctor by the.

Name of Catherine Rayleigh.

That’s the character? Yep.

That’s Madeline Stowe.

Yeah. And one really significant thing she says about her scenes with him is that he looks familiar. She kept saying, he looks familiar to me. Um, and she’s not sure why. And she is a regular doctor trying to help him. She also is a scientist and is studying some sort of like, she’s kind.

Of interested in, um, premonitions isn’t right, but historical, I guess. Premonition, historical premonitions of the end of civilization, including revelations of the Bible and.

Then other, I guess, more specifically people in the past, in history who have thought to be crazy, but have predicted the future correctly.

Because I think in 1990 she’s very much, uh, discussing the idea of it and really ancient ideas of it. And then between then, I think because of her running with James Cole. She spends that five years, I think, studying people closer to our time who have claimed time travel and to know what’s going to happen in the future.

Yeah. So she specializes in crazy people talking about future things. She wrote a book on about it and stuff. So they say they’re going to send him now to the correct time. 1996. And the next scene we see is he appears naked in a world war I scenario battle scene. There’s bombs going off, bullets flying everywhere, and he is shot in the leg. And then he sees a friend of his who was in the jail cell next to him by the name of Jose. He sees his friend there who is on a stretcher about to be carried away. And they have some words exchanged. Um, and he’ll come back into play later. And then we see a very creepy guy getting an autograph from the lady doctor, the lady psychiatrist, after her speech on the book she wrote, getting her signature.

Your book nails the Cassandra complex, which is ancient greek mythology about premonitions

And he says something along the lines of, people are a plague and you. And your book was nailed it. And he says some creepy stuff. He comes back into play later as well.

Yeah, he says, I was looking up real quick one of the big things of Dr. Rayleigh’s research. Uh, it’s called the Cassandra complex, which is some ancient greek mythology about, uh, premonitions.

Yeah. She was a daughter of somebody and she did something bad, so the gods cursed her by giving her the ability to see the future. But nobody believes her.

Perfect.

Yeah. The lady doctor puts that in her report about her book and kind, uh, of what she is studying and focusing on people who talk about the future, but they’re revered as crazy instead.

Do you remember what her book was called? That’s what I was actually looking up to see. What her.

No, it was like her study what she got her degree in, her doctor.

Dr. Rayleigh’s book of nonsense.

Bruce Willis plays a character who is going crazy and hearing voices

So we’re now in 1996, and we just had the quick scene of the creepy guy getting the autograph. And then the doctor is walking to her car, and James, uh, abducts her and throws her in the car and says, we are going to Philadelphia because that is where the outbreak happened. And she’s like, wait, you disappeared six years ago from the mental institute. What’s going on? And so they start a road trip down to Philadelphia. And there’s one thing. I wrote a question mark here. He’s listening to the music on the radio, and he’s like, I love music. From the 40th century.

No, I think he says 21st century.

Okay. I like rewinded it, uh, and listened to it again. And I’m pretty sure he says 40th. I don’t know why. That’s why I wrote a question mark.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure he says 20th century.

Okay, that makes sense. There’s no reason why he would say 40th. So a bunch more stuff happens.

Uh, right now, basically is just giving you reason to expect that she’s going to believe him. Yeah, basically it’s, uh, them forming some kind of a relationship. So you believe in the end that she’s on his side.

So they’re in Philadelphia and they come across a homeless man who calls him Bob. And I think he heard the voice of this homeless man before when he was in his underground post apocalyptic times calling him Bob. And so they see this homeless man, he says, hey, bob, you know, they’re following you. They’re tracking, you know, the device that they put in your teeth. I was able to avoid them by pulling out all my teeth. So that is significant and comes into play later.

I forget, did that guy seem like he was sent back to find James?

I don’t think so. I think he was just another traveler, as we’ll call it, who was sent there and was able to avoid going back to the post apocalyptic. Wow, post apocalyptic time.

Bingo.

By pulling out his teeth. But they also are kind of implying that maybe this character is also going crazy and hearing voices. So they’re playing around with the fact, know, maybe Bruce Willis’s character is actually crazy and he’s not a time traveler. And towards the end of the movie, Bruce starts to accept that fact and he says, no, I am just crazy. This isn’t real.

That’s kind of the underlying theme of this movie is, are the crazy people, right? Maybe it’s all the people who are just going to work and buying Xbox games and, um, sedating themselves with our culture that are the problem. And all these crazy people who push back are the real sane ones.

Yeah.

Brad Pitt’s character has one contact lens that makes his eyes look weird

So at this point we find out, or at least I wrote in my notes, that Brad is the son, or.

Sorry if it’s in the notes.

That Jeffrey is the son of this very wealthy, well known scientist who deals with viruses. And Bruce goes to visit Brad. Let me say that again. James goes to visit Jeffrey at his dad’s mansion during a dinner party. I noticed that they did a very good job, a subtle job of putting one weird contact lens, uh, for Brad Pitt, making his eyes look weird.

Is that what they.

Yes. Oh, yes. So you look at Brad Pitt’s eyes and you’re like, something is off. And there’s one close up scene where they focus on his eyes. I was like, oh, he’s wearing one contact lens that’s like either a slightly different color or makes the pupil look small the whole time. And the other one look big. It makes him look perfectly insane. Done.

Well, that’s brilliant.

Yeah. So it almost looks like he has a lazy eye, but it’s not that. And it’s just creepy.

It’s not quite focusing the same way as his good eye is. That’s really this. Oh, go ahead.

No, go ahead.

I was going to say, I might be stepping on your point, but this is when Jeffrey really confuses James, thinking that maybe this whole scheme was James’s idea, that he implanted the idea of the twelve monkeys and the virus in Jeffrey’s mind in 1990 in the loony bin. And so now Cole is really thinking he’s the crazy one.

Yeah. So James Cole confronts him because he thinks that Brad Pitt’s character is the one who’s going to let the virus out. Something to do with twelve Monkeys came up again. Um. Oh, yeah, that’s right. Because the lady Doctor and him go to someplace and there’s like three people who are part of the twelve Monkeys. And they tell him that Brad Pitt’s character is the leader of the twelve Monkeys, who he is actually the leader.

Of the twelve Monkeys because, yeah, they’re just like, we just want to inform people and he wants to really raise hell, which they’re not into.

So Brad Pitt’s character says, you’re crazy. You’re loony. If I did have that idea, it’s because you told me about it in 1996, years ago. And they almost kind of imply that Brad Pitt’s character is going to do that, that he has that idea because of what Bruce Willis told know six years ago. So then he’s brought back to the past. There’s a scene where Bruce Willis’s character is like splashing around in a puddle, and then the lady doctor looks over and he’s just gone. So this movie, the special effects of the traveling is just disappearing. There is no special effects. Yeah, it just gone.

Appears off camera, disappears off camera.

Yeah. So now James is back in the future, the post apocalyptic place, and he’s hearing this voice of this old man calling him Bob again. So that comes back a couple of times. And then we see the creepy guy who got the autograph from the lady doctor. We see him working in a lab run by Brad Pitt’s character’s dad. So Jeffrey’s dad, the famous doctor who deals with viruses. So we see this creepy guy come back and he’s like in the lab dealing with all the viruses. And he’s being creepy. Guy’s good at being creepy. So then that’s when we learn know this creepy guy’s got to have something to do with the virus. Yeah. So the lady doctor is fully on board with all the things that Bruce Willis. Sorry, Jeffrey. Has been saying.

Because James, darn it, you can just call him Bruce.

See, Jeffrey and James names are hard. So I’m just going to call him by Bruce and.

Sounds great.

Okay, so lady Doctor is fully on board because the bullet that was pulled out of Bruce’s leg from when he was in World War I was found to be a bullet from World War I. And Bruce’s character also predicted that the little boy. It’s been all over the news. The little boy that fell in the well wasn’t, uh, really in the well. He was hiding in a barn because it was all a prank. So he predicted that correctly. Plus the bullet, the lady doctor is like, okay, maybe all these things that he is saying are true. And she says, maybe he’s right. About 5 billion people about to die from this virus within like a couple of weeks.

Yeah, it moves fast.

Yeah. They know the date in which this virus is released. And it’s coming up fast. So she starts to get frantic and she starts to look for these twelve monkeys because she still thinks that it’s also the twelve monkeys. And she goes to the location where they found the three people who confirmed that Brad Pitt’s character is actually the leader of the Twelve Monkeys. And she’s trying to get in and they’re not letting her in. And she gets some spray paint. And she spray paints a message on the side of the building. And it flashed too quickly. I missed it. But essentially it says that 5 billion people will die.

Yeah.

And that’s important because in the future, the post apocalyptic time, they have this picture as one of their evidences, um, that this is going to happen and when and where. Anyway, I wrote that down in my notes. So she was the one who spray painted that. And that was a picture that comes up a lot when they’re around the scientists.

Okay, so then some more stuff. So then we have a scene where Brad Pitt kidnaps his dad

Okay, so then some more stuff.

So yeah, she finds Cole. Uh, and this is when everything flips. Because now she’s fully invested. She’s like, this guy’s a friggin time.

Yep.

And I need to listen to him. And this is when Bruce is like, I’m crazy. I need you to help me.

Yeah. And he wants to surrender himself. And he’s like, time travel is not real. I’m actually crazy. You were right from the beginning. And she’s like, no. And then she has the idea of the phone number that Bruce was supposed to originally call when he got to 1996. So the first time when he jumped, he landed in 1990, and he made the phone call, and it just happened to be some lady living in her house. So now she’s like, well, let’s try that number that you were originally supposed to call. And he’s like, ah, I’m crazy. Don’t do it, or whatever. She calls and she leaves a message. The message that he was supposed to say. Like, she knew it word for word, and she said it, and it was the correct number. And the future people have the recording of her, but it’s distorted because time travel, it distorts.

Well, between the time travel and I think they actually find it in the future. I guess you don’t hunt down a voice message. It’s not a physical thing, but they.

Have to like the tape of it.

Uh, yeah, it’s been deteriorated and they have to put it together. It’s not like they sucked it into the future. From then it actually sat around for 40 years. And then they dug it up and pieced it together.

So it’s a little distorted. And Brad says, oh, I’m sorry, bruce. I’m not trying to confuse you. Bruce says, oh, I didn’t recognize your voice. But, yeah, that’s you. That this is the message that we’ve been trying to. That we’ve been using to find these twelve monkey people. So then we have a scene where Brad Pitt kidnaps his dad, and we finally see what the twelve monkeys gang are all about. And they’re all about rescuing animals.

Freeing the animals.

Freeing the animals. And freeing the animals from their cages. So crazy Brad and his crew of people kidnap his dad, and they go to the zoo and they let all the animals out. Yay. And that’s it. That’s all they wanted to do. So it turns out twelve monkeys has absolutely nothing to do with the virus and killing all those people. Cool. All right, so then what’s with the old movie? Did you look into that? When they’re in the movie theater and she’s patching him up?

It’s vertigo.

Okay.

It’s Hitchcock’s vertigo, which I didn’t realize that had anything to do with time. I don’t know if it actually has to do with time travel, but at some point he points at the tree, and he said, this is where I was born. This is where I died.

In the movie vertigo.

Yeah. So that’s something we may have to look into.

Okay, maybe just crazy people. Maybe she’s like, crazy in that movie. We should have searched that. Yeah.

And I actually listened to a podcast kind of recently on vertigo. Even though I hadn’t seen it, I decided to listen to them talk about it. And I’m not recollecting it as much as I wish I could, but if there’s anything time travel based, I think we definitely check that out.

Yeah, we’ll check it out.

Get some hitchhike in here.

James: Throughout the movie, there are recurring themes about the virus

So at this point, lady doctor is fully on board with Bruce, and she’s like, okay, so everyone’s going to die in like, two weeks. What should we do? And she suggests going to the beach, because Bruce Willis has never seen the beach or the ocean. So they’re like, okay, we’re going to go do this. Let’s buy a plane ticket. Let’s get some wigs, disguises, and we’ll go and fly and see the beach.

The Florida keys, which is a kind of a reoccurring theme that plays out to nothing, really, but it keeps popping up.

Yeah. Reoccurring things.

They’re going to.

So they got these disguises, and they’re in the airport, and lo and behold, the disguises are exactly what the lady and the man from Bruce’s dream look like. Throughout the movie, we kind of see the dream progress and we notice that it’s the lady doctor in the dream, but she has blonde hair and it’s another man and with red hair.

I thought that as we watched it, we just kept getting added to. But in some of the research I did, I think that scene actually changes a little bit. Like, I think the first time we see it, I think it’s creepy guy. And then we see it once with Brad Pitt in that place. But, yeah, I’d like to look up a montage and see all of those dream sequences back to back to see all the subtle changes as we work our way through.

Kind of the audience gets the idea that what the dream is about is probably what’s going to happen. It’s kind of obvious at this point.

Uh, I think in theory they wanted to mask who the young boy was. And I don’t know, maybe in the mid ninety s it played a little bit better. Like, ooh, who’s this little kid? But today it’s like, yeah, that’s Bruce.

We get it.

Yeah.

So they’re in the airport, and all of a sudden, Bruce Willis’s friend, his cellmate friend, shows up. Jose.

Well, first Bruce makes a call.

No. The lady makes a call.

No.

Oh. Bruce makes a second call. Yes, that’s right. So Bruce calls that same number again and basically says, it’s not the twelve monkeys. Everything we thought is wrong. It’s really someone else.

I don’t even think he knows yet. I think he just knows that they’re wrong. They’re on the wrong path. Change course.

Yeah. So then literally less than five minutes later, his friend Jose, another traveler, shows up and says, we got your message. I’m here. Take this gun. You need to have this gun. Like, his mission was to find Bruce Willis and give him this gun. And Bruce was like, what? No, why? And he says, take this gun or I’m going to kill the lady. He’s like, all right. So he just has a gun. And they proceed to go to the gate of the airport, and creepy man is there. Creepy man with long, creepy red hair and a briefcase is there. And he’s going through security checkpoint, and they say, sir, please open your suitcase. What are these vials in here? And the vials look empty. And, uh, it’s a thing here, look. And creepy guy opens up the vial and smells it and gives it to the security guard to smell. And you get the sense that, okay, he just released the virus.

As of that moment. Too late, it’s released.

And they also show creepy guy checking in at the desk, and he’s got a ticket to go to San Francisco and Rio and all the places that these scientists from the post apocalyptic time know where the virus gets released. So this doctor guy is planning on just going from city to city to release this virus.

So it’s released, but it’s already out.

It’s already out.

I think we’ve passed the point of no return right here at this security checkpoint. It might move a little slower, but it’s out there.

So how does lady doctor? Oh, she sees a newspaper.

I love names. Are I like that you’re having problems with Bruce and James, but she’s just lady doctor.

She’s lady doctor. I forget her name. So how does lady doctor know? Okay, she sees a newspaper article with a picture of creepy man next to Brad Pitt’s dad. Virus doctor.

Is that all it takes for her to put it together?

Yeah. So she sees him go through security and then also sees the article and that he’s like a lab assistant or something. And she’s like, that’s the guy. And she just knows and puts it together. And she’s like, go after that guy. And she and Bruce Willis can’t get to him. And creepy guy’s like, oh, no. And starts to run. And thus starts, oh, yeah. And then we see little boy Bruce, little Bruce walking in with his parents. So then you’re like, okay, this is the dream. It’s happening. And it happens.

You really know. Yeah. When he goes through the metal detector and, uh, starts going off, that’s when it triggers to all of us, oh, this is it.

So creepy guy’s running with the suitcase.

Joan: I still think the meaning behind the movie is true

Bruce is running after creepy guy. He has this gun that his friend gave him. So he pulls out the gun. All the security guards and cops are there because they’ve been looking for him. She’s ladies running after Bruce. Cops draw their guns. They shoot Bruce. Just like in the dream. She’s standing over him. Bruce dies. Creepy guy makes it through to his plane, runs off. Bruce Willis dies. And then the final scene in the movie is creepy guy sitting on a plane next to a woman who is, I think, in the future, one of the scientists from the post apocalyptic time.

She absolutely is. I think. I want to say she’s the zoologist, but, yeah, she’s one of the ists at the end of the movie that are interrogating.

And she says, hi, I’m judy, or whatever her name is. Jones.

Um, Joan.

Joan. Her last name is Jones. And they shake hands and they do it. They. The Movie does a good job of very abruptly showing the handshake, and the creepy guy’s, like, got a crazy look in his eye, and he’s.

Well, not only that, do you remember what her last words were?

Oh, yeah. She works in insurance.

No, I’m an insurance.

No, that’s what she said. Yeah.

Uh, Jones is my name. I’m an insurance.

Are you sure? I’m an insurance or I work in insurance.

I am an insurance.

Okay, now I want to watch it again. All right, we’re going to watch it again, folks. Hang tight. Are you?

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. Because that’s why I think that Jones doesn’t necessarily have to give Bruce a gun as much as he has to give him something to make the metal detector go off. Like, I don’t think he’s giving him a gun to try to kill creepy guy. I think by that time, they’re just like, they could have planted a gold bar in his backpack. Well, I don’t have gold.

So they wanted Bruce Willis to get.

Yes.

Uh, okay, let’s. We’re going to watch this.

Let’s see.

Well, yeah.

And Bruce says at the beginning and his first trip, none of this can change. I can’t save any of you. This has already happened. His present is the present. And anywhere he time travels to.

That’s true. Nowhere in this movie do they talk about changing the past to save the future. It’s repeated over and over again that everything has happened. There’s nothing we can do. All we’re trying to do is gather evidence and, um, research to help track the path of the virus, I think is what they said. Yeah. So nowhere are they trying to save the future. They’re just trying to gather stuff. We might say that we’re the next endangered species. Human beings.

I think you’re right, man. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Jones is my name.

Oh, you’re right. But I still think the meaning. I think I still have the meaning. Right.

I was right.

You’re right about what she said, but I still think I’m right about the meaning behind it.

I’m in insurance.

Yes, she does.

So she’s not a scientist. Not in 1996.

Well, that’s why I think the meaning. I think she’s there because you see a couple of people, you see her there, and she does. She has a grin on.

She’s not like, so she is in insurance. So there’s definitely something fishy going on. In my opinion. It sounds like whoever the powers are, they want this virus to be released. But here’s my question. So that’s the movie. So she says, I’m insurance. The movie ends. I’m in insurance.

Some people are naturally immune to this virus, including Bruce

So my first question. That’s the overview.

That’s the overview.

Okay. My first question is some people are immune to this virus, including Bruce, including that lady who was on the plane, including some other people. So some people are naturally immune to this virus?

Yes.

Okay. They don’t talk about that at all.

They don’t. They don’t. But judging by. Yeah, it is weird that they don’t get into that at all. And I wonder. She’s in insurance. I wonder if she’s been spreading. Makes me think that she already has the immunity, uh, like antidote or something. Yeah.

It makes you question, why would somebody in insurance want to spread a virus that could kill or will kill billions of people? How does someone in insurance profit from that?

Maybe. Yeah. She’s somehow part of the illuminati and she’s already selling the immunity at this point because I feel like her insurance is just to ensure that what happens has happened will happen. That whole thing. Making sure that no paradoxes pop up.

Yeah. So this movie brings up the idea that whatever will happen will happen, and you cannot do anything to change it.

Well, they start out by saying, he doesn’t even say that I can’t change anything. He’s just like, this past is a construct, almost, of my memory, and I’ll go back to the present, and you’ll all be dead anyway, so whatever. But then at the end, yeah. Uh, there seems to be people put in place to ensure this all goes off as planned.

So this story is a loop, but I don’t think it is a bootstrap paradox.

I agree with you. It’s a loop, but it’s a loop that has to be held together every time. I don’t think that this happens exactly the same every time. I, uh, think people are just from the future are always put in place to push the right buttons to ensure. Because I think as long as homeboy gets on the plane, nothing else matters. And that’s where she comes in. In insurance, as long as he sits down next to her, they’re fine. Because even if Cole weren’t to die, if he gets on the plane and makes all of his stops, then they’re still set.

Well, I think the moment that the creepy guy opens the vial in the security checkpoint, it’s done. He’s let the virus out. Eventually, that virus would spread.

Well, if people die so quickly, though, it might not make it to as many countries, and maybe only 2 billion people die. Now that I think about it. I think that if people die that quickly from it, I think the effects would be severely lessened. If he doesn’t make it to eight major ports.

Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, he released it in an airport. Have you ever heard of the game plague? I think it was.

Unfortunately, I’ve played way too much plague.

Yeah. And an airport is a major way to spread a virus, especially if it’s airborne.

No, I think it does quite a bit of damage. But I think, obviously, I don’t want to pretend like two to 3 billion people is not a big deal, but the difference between 90% of the population and half the population would have a dramatic effect on their future.

This is all still photographs with narration over it. This is not a motion picture

So you saw the short story that this was based off of?

I did.

Was it the same? What was it about?

It was really interesting.

How long was it?

Half hour. Super French, super artsy, super 1962.

That’s when it was made. In 1962.

This is not a motion picture. This was all still photographs with narration over it. And it was fascinating. Like, if you had told me that I could get in. I mean, a feature film, a 90 minutes movie, it would get old. But for 90 minutes, he really makes it work.

30 minutes. You mean 30 minutes.

30 minutes. Sorry. Yeah. And I haven’t seen many, if any, of those black and white french art films. But I’ve seen all of the jokes made about it. And this is such. It did everything but flash the word Finn at the end of it.

Legiti is about a man from the future who can time travel

Yeah, but was it about twelve monkeys? What was it about?

It was about a man from the future. In this story, it’s world War three. Okay, so, uh, world War three destroys most of humanity. And I don’t think it’s a virus at all. But he’s getting sent back to gain information and figure this out. Just like james was. They go into more, um, the idea that how many men were, uh, brought to insanity because of this.

From traveling?

Yeah, from time traveling. And most people just turn into vegetables or get stuck in the past. And the reason why this man is able to do it, they call him strong minded. But what’s really cool is there’s so many ideas from this film that have been brought out and expanded on. They don’t say it like this, but it’s his constant that gives him the ability to time travel. And it’s because of this vision he saw as a kid at the airport of this woman. And then he sees her when he travels. And that connection with his constant is what gives him the quote, unquote strong mind to handle it. Because he’s got a nice strong anchor in both spots.

Okay, so it’s very similar.

Yeah. So it doesn’t drive him mad because he’s like, okay, the future is the future. The past is this woman. And so he goes back a couple of times. Again, it’s all narration. And he goes back, they say. And it’s kind of tough to tell because this one gives you the idea a lot more that it’s mental time travel, but then his body is physically there to be with this woman also. So again, there’s a lot of ideas thrown out in this short film that aren’t fully fleshed out, but give you a lot to think about. So then he goes to the future. At some point. At some point, he learns what he needs to from the past, gets sent to the future. Everyone in the future is like, we made it. We’re cool. Thanks. And then, so for his pardon, he’s also a, uh, prisoner. Prisoner. For his pardon, they were going to send him to the future, so he could be in this, uh, utopia. Utopia. And he says, no, I’d rather go back in time to be with this woman. And then when he goes back in time to be with this woman, then they actually send someone there to kill him. And then that’s when he realized that right before he’s shot, he realizes that what’s happened, has happened, will happen, blah, blah, blah.

Okay, so it’s very similar.

So it’s super similar. And it’s crazy how similar it is considering how different of a story it is. But, yeah, but there were a few ideas in there that made twelve monkeys easier to understand.

Um, so the whole twelve monkeys part was kind of like a red herring. The twelve Monkeys was a gang that wanted to save animals and cared about animal rights and had nothing to do with the virus.

You’re right. Yeah. The time travel portion was the half hour of Legiti, and then the twelve Monkeys is what padded out the other hour.

That’s interesting.

And then I also watched some of the television series, which when it originally released, I watched four or five episodes, and I got into. And just other things came up. I couldn’t keep up with it. I think actually, I was really, this is years ago now, but the real seeds of this podcast were getting planted in my mind, if not hourly. And I think part of my thought process was, well, let me get this podcast off the ground, and then I’ll watch some twelve monkeys. And that was four years ago now, so I missed the boat, but I rewatched the first episode and a half and a lot of time travel stuff in that. I really thought that that movie was more about the twelve Monkeys thing. And I thought the time travel was going to be kind of a secondary.

The movie or the show?

The show.

Okay, so you thought the show was more about the.

I thought the show was going to be more about the twelve Monkeys in the. Then the time travel would just be kind of this side project that was going on. But there’s a lot of really cool time travel stuff.

So it’s a good show.

It is. And I don’t know. And there are probably lots of episodes where they just hang out in the listen, stone temple pilots, and it’s not a big deal, but the first episode, they really hit it hard. And there’s some really cool things. He does a thing where he’s got a watch and she’s like, that looks just like my watch. He’s like, no, no, this is your watch. And then he says, look at your wrist. And she looks at her wrist. He scratches the watch in his hand. The watch on her wrist gets a scratch on it. And he says, I liked this. How does he word it? You break the past and the future follows. That’s what he says there. And then later on in that episode, he takes the two watches and he puts them together. And a bunch of crazy stuff starts happening. Time kind of slows down. It gets weird. And he does this in order to escape, uh, a tough situation. And it’s great. She’s like, what in the hell just happened? And he said, I like this quote. Mother Nature doesn’t like when you rearrange her furniture.

All right.

I thought that was a great.

So for the Twelve Monkeys movie, when he appears in the past he’s naked

So for the Twelve Monkeys movie. Yeah. Talking about the laws and the holes.

Let’s real quick. The machine, how they time travel the first time, you don’t see it. And then the second time you see it. And I was almost surprised when we saw it the second time. Why they bothered showing it. Yeah, I don’t know. Because it’s cool, I guess. Did you get any sense of what they were doing?

Well, I mean, they were preparing him to time travel. They put him in, like, this plastic tube, and they were connecting all these electrodes to him just to show. I got the sense it was just to show how they time travel. And then they stick him in this cylinder tube in the middle of this giant machine. And then when he appears in the past, he’s naked. So this is almost like a terminator thing where they show up naked.

Yeah. And I’ve realized what a great. Why that has to be an every time travel movie. Because why doesn’t he just bring back a bunch of pictures and phone numbers and stuff? I just realized that breaks almost every time travel movie. If you can bring stuff back to.

Prove to the people in the past.

Or just make your job easier, just like, you’ll have an address book and some pictures. And even if it’s not proof, it’s at least like you can center yourself and move about better.

So, yeah, I guess for the law of this movie is when you do travel in the past, you can bring nothing with you, including your clothes.

So, yeah, I just thought it was interesting because, yeah, he’s in that tube, and they basically kind of like, torpedo him. Did you get the sense that they just put him in the machine or he was being shot into light speed into.

Yeah, it definitely has something to do with light. And then he just appears because you.

See him time travel. You see him in this whatever machine or traveling. You see the lights around him. And then he appears in World War II. And then even when he’s zapped back without going to the future, well, without going to 2035, when he gets zapped back to the. See him back in that space again.

Yeah.

This movie combines physical and mental time travel really well

This movie, I think, is very interesting. I think it combines the idea of physical and mental time travel really well. His body is obviously time traveling, but there’s a lot of investigating of your brain on time travel.

And he remembers m everything from all of his travels to the past to the present, to the future. It looks like it’s one timeline, and changing something in the past does not affect the future for this movie because.

I don’t know what. I think. This does definitely seem to have a what’s happened has happened will always happen, but it’s more of a, these pieces are always going to fall into place, and then that’s where the insurance comes in, just in case something doesn’t. Because in theory, they could just drive to the keys, but then I guess the virus still gets released, so none of it matters.

Yeah, it’s a loop. This is a loop story. It makes the point that you cannot change the future, and what is supposed to happen will always happen.

And do you think the insurance is to keep time stable, or do you think that these people have an investment in this virus?

Yeah, I think these people think that they’re going to kill some people and then maybe present an antidote and get rich off of it or something. I think it has something to do with money. I think these people are thinking they’re going to cash in on killing a bunch of people. Maybe they did not plan on killing 5 billion people and it got out of hand. But I think that has something to do with money.

Yeah, I’m trying to think.

So, the original timeline, we have to assume, does the virus get released

So, the original timeline, we have to assume, does the virus get released, or is that a construct of the future? Like maybe in the future there’s 20 billion people, and they’re like, this is madness. We’re all going to die if we don’t go back in time. And thanos, our population?

Yeah, it could be, definitely. But they’re all living underground and miserable.

Because in the original timeline, if the virus goes off and these people survive.

My question is, the doctor obviously is immune. Bruce Willis is obviously immune. Everybody underground is most likely immune. So the virus is no longer a threat. It killed all the people that it can. And unless there’s a bunch of people, they just didn’t show. They showed this prison, right? This prison and this lab and all these scientists. But it didn’t show, like, regular people living, but they did say that they were underground. So I’m assuming that some of these people underground are still at risk at this virus, and that’s why they have to go back and gather all this information. But most of the people they showed must have been immune.

Yeah. Why is that? Because if a billion people are immune, but they’re still going up, they’re still wearing a lot of equipment. Bruce Willis really suits up to go outside. Maybe the children that these people have born since then need protecting, and they don’t want anyone coming back with the virus at all.

Yeah. This movie does a really good job of making you question, is he insane, or is it actually time travel? It was done well. I mean, it’s a great movie. This is a classic movie.

Yeah, it does do a really good job of that because, yeah, it’s a really weird future. And Terry Gilliam was very purposeful in picking pre 90s technology just to show how devastated and maybe people went underground to the people who could afford it, because it was just chaos up there, and maybe what was left was basically a world war three. I’m very curious about that future now and how it unfolded the first time and what everyone’s investment in this past is. Oh, I liked the. I’ve never watched this movie close enough, but at the beginning, when he’s walking around, they’re very careful to go where you’re going to see sooner. I never noticed before. They kind of almost zoom in on this rack of aloha shirts in this department store, and that’s the department store where they go get their disguises at the end. And that’s the rack of shirts that he chooses from. So that was I noticed before. I’ve noticed some of the outsides of buildings, but I never realized. I often don’t watch these movies close enough to show the little nuggets they put at the beginning that will connect your timelines at the end. And good people do it really subtly.

Oh, yeah. This movie does a really great job of bringing things back. Like, when he saw the animals up on the surface in the very beginning, it was like a bear and a lion. And then when he’s in the past, he sees a, uh, stuffed bear in a window, and he sees a statue lion in the city. So, oh, yeah, this movie is great at bringing little things back in, little nuggets here and there.

Would you risk your sanity to save the present by going to the past

I don’t know where I want to talk about the future in this more, but I don’t know what to grasp onto. I need your help out there. People tell me because I’m having a really hard time figuring out what the original timeline was, if the virus was released the first time, or if the virus is a construct of the future, because creepy guy is creepy. Like he has a purpose from the get go. And, yeah, I don’t really have a question for us as far as using this time travel. Would you risk your sanity to save the present by going to the past? And again, let’s take away the fact that you’re a prisoner, because if you’re on death row, then why not? But you’re a person in the future, and you might go mad. You might get to the past and just end up in a psych ward because you can’t figure this out.

Yeah. I mean, if billions of lives are at stake, yeah, I’d be a hero. I’d go back and try to fix things even if my sanity was at risk.

Yeah, I would, too. I’d have to test it. I feel like I got a strong mind, too. I feel like my ability to find a constant would be. I was trying to think if this time travel moves in time and space, but, yeah, this is a very imprecise version of time travel by where you land and all that.

Yeah, this makes me want to see the tv show.

Yeah, this is really good. And this is another movie I think I might have to watch again sooner just to start picking up on those little things. Because I watch this movie every eight to ten years, and I love it so much, I just get lost in enjoying the movie. And I bet you there are great little things dropped here and there that might help put together some of my thoughts and ideas. That’s communication with the outside world. Doctors, uh, thank you for listening to time pop. Hopefully, if you have made it this far, it’s because you’ve enjoyed the program. After you like and subscribe to time pop, please tell a neighbor or friend about it so you can enjoy a discussion of your own on the topic of time travel. And if you didn’t enjoy this, tell someone you hate to download and listen to time pop. We’ll take the traffic any way we can get it. If you would like to add to the conversation, please email us at time pop 90 216. That’s timepop nine 2116 at@gmail.com and tell us your thoughts about this particular depiction of time travel. And tell us your thoughts on James Cole’s journey through time and what you think of this whole timeline in general. Single timeline, multiple timelines, bootstrap, paradoxes, you can change time. You can’t change time. Is she in insurance or an insurance? And definitely let us know about a time travel, movie, book, game, et cetera, that we might discuss on a future episode. And if you would like to start your own discussion on the topic, please head over to face Insta Twitter book. We’re at TPOP 90 216. That is at Tpop nine. 2116. And please check out sounds awesome. 90 216. Dot to hear what else sounds awesome. All of these nuts could just make phone calls. It could spread insanity oozing through telephone cables, oozing to the ears of all these poor, sane people, infecting them. Wackos everywhere. Plague of madness. Now back to the big finish.

Desmond McNeese: I’m trying to put this movie together

All right, Ari. That was our episode on Twelve Monkeys. I want to talk more about it, but I don’t know what to grasp onto. Like, I need to discuss this movie more, but I think I need to think about it. Figure out. I think our next episode, we might spend a little time at the beginning. Uh, at least I might. You can just sit there and call me crazy, but trying to put this movie together. Tell us out there what you think this whole timeline is about. Did the virus get released in the original timeline? Is the virus a construct of the future? Is she in insurance or is she an insurance. I don’t care what the closed caption says. I think she is more of an insurance than in insurance.

That’s the big question. What does she have to do with all this?

I am Desmond McNeese.

And I’m Ariel Gala.

Uh, until next week. We’ll see you later.

Bye. You get your one sneeze a day.