This episode left me a little underwhelmed, but I still loved it

Mate, fatty the chef.

Welcome to our Wheel of Time podcast. We are your. I haven’t figured out to do that kind of do what to say for our intro. We are your source.

We are your shoulder to cry on for all things wheel of time.

There we go. Perfect. I love it. Holy crap, again.

Like, we will hold your hands and get you through the dark times. Yeah.

This show moves so fast and so slow at the same time.

Yeah, I know. It’s like this episode left me a little underwhelmed. Uh, I still loved it. There were just a few more things that I wish they would have done, but I guess it would have been hard. But I still loved it.

I thought about it a couple of episodes ago, but I didn’t want to try to get out in front of it. But this really was just a set up for the show. They eventually want to get to.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah. And I think they did a great job. This is going to be one of the longest off seasons I’ve ever lived through just being like, next, dude, I.

Have such a boner. I’m just like, oh, God. That’s actually what made me most excited about this episode. I told you we were going to get some of those. The western shores thing was going to play in at the end. We’ll talk about it. I knew that was coming. That was definitely sufficiently. Yes, I did like the dragon at the beginning. Uh, like I said, there was some things. We’ll go through it. There’s some things I love, and there’s some things I was like, oh, man.

Author Luz Theron clearly had a universe in mind with this book

So let’s just jump right in. We start 3000 years ago with a cydine and a sidear. Is it Saidar?

Uh, yeah, basically, they’re kind of the head of their respective. She holds the title of Tamirin, but actually, he did at one point. But it’s kind of like he’s the leader of the male AES sedai, and she’s kind of like Suan Sanche now. And this was the main thing is that the women were like, they disagreed with going to, and I think that’s one of the things they’ve been talking about. Oh, the dark ones prison is the eye of the world. It’s like the dark ones prison is not the eye of the world. It’s just kind of one of the Seals and some of the, like, it’s the outer seal to the inner seal type of thing, if you want to look at it, that, um, you know, Ishmael was the one who was closest to the world, and he’s been able to touch the world almost since he was put away and so powerful for so long that he thinks he’s the dark one, kind of, he’s kind of insane a little bit. But this was the main thing is that a lot of the AES sedai were flocking to the dark one. And Luz Theron wanted to go and strike at the heart of Shel ghul, which is where the dark one, uh, prison is. No, but that’s where his prison is, actually at a place called Shelgul, not the eye of the world. The eye of the world was just, ah, in the books was a place, um, where there was like, um. The way I understood it is that the men had already started to go insane a little bit and they worked with the females to create a pool of untainted cydine so that when the dragon came back, he could learn how to channel, uh, uh, with an untainted pool of sidine. And so he could at least kind of stall off the madness for a while. Um, was the way I understood it. And, uh, when they first get there, there’s a forsaken who’s kind of attached himself to it. And he was old and decrepit. And by the end of the fight he’s like looking like as young as rand. So like, you know, that’s the eye of the world. A little bit different, but they’re going to end up. That’s why Moraine kind of says at the end, oh, this is just the beginning. It’s like, yeah, you think? And yet it’s kind of cool because you do think all the way through the eye of the world that this is like a one. Even though I knew there were books after it at that point, I felt like it was, uh, standalone. Because you’re like, yeah, it’s over. Yeah, it’s so not over. It’s so not over.

Well, and especially when most authors are just like, well, let’s just get this one book out there and see what happens so you don’t leave this much of an open ended. But he obviously had a universe in mind.

Um, yeah, to a certain extent, definitely he had a universe in mind, but more like, um, I think some of his lore evolved along the way. But he had a real good idea of what he wanted his female characters to be and his male characters to be and the duality of man and the reincarnation. I think he was a war veteran and stuff like that. So he saw death and wanted, I think, to believe in something a little bit bigger. I think it kind of helped his writing in that sense.

So you’ve mentioned that in a lot of the later books, he works a little more on world building

So you’ve mentioned that in a lot of the later books, he works a little bit more on world building and stuff like that. Has that fed in. Are they using some of those older book world building in this first this? If they just did the straight first book, would it not be as, like.

People would quit halfway through? Not that it’s boring. It’s just like I was telling lisa, I was telling my wife today, I was to. If they tried to flesh out the world as much as they wanted to in the first season as they did, like the first, just. They would just lose too many people.

Well, no, I just mean, like, as far as their outfits and the cities and were they as fleshed out in the first book as they were later?

Yes, that’s something that he always paid a lot of attention to. And then kind of too much as he got, uh, further on. Some of the things that he says a lot like bared and erectus Snarl. That’s one of the things that he uses a lot that I like. Yeah, uh, Perrin drew his axe. Teeth bared and erectus Snarl. You’re like, yeah, get him. Bite him.

Well, it’s interesting too, I bet as we go along and we discuss the books, more, we can discuss when the books were written. And it’s like, oh, Clinton was in the White House here. And then, oh, this is when Bush was in the White House. So he was having different things that he wanted to convey to the world about peace and neutrality.

I hadn’t even thought about that. I just looked at as the fact. I knew when he got sick, he definitely started to do the scroll work and the tapestries and the worlds. But then when he did write something that was profound, there’s a scene, uh, Dumais Wells, a lot of the people book fans are like, oh, man, that’s what I can’t wait to see. Because it’s know, you see Rand, he’s this innocent kid, and to see where he gets to at that point, the anger and the insanity and just the destruction, it’s like, it’s going to be amazing to see on screen. I can’t wait. It’s amazingly and terrible at the same time. It’s horrific, but that’s getting way ahead. Like I said, the beginning, the AES sedai are kind of breaking apart at that point because Lucerin’s like, I want to go shut this down. And the females are. And they didn’t know that that was going to happen. So that’s a little bit bullshit. To me because she’s like, oh, you’re going to set us back a thousand years because they had no idea that that would happen.

But bad guys, bad guys go from bad to worse with a little shove. And this might have been the shove that they needed to go from like petty theft to the.

No, you’re right.

The full m Las Vegas mafia.

It’s like a lot of the times the dark one is kind of a mirror. So he wants to know he’ll use your worst fears against you. And in that sense, the closer he could be to that much sidene being channeled, the more he can influence the people who are wielding it. And in fighting back is how the taint was. Uh, imagine it as like a poison and he struck a poison into that side of the power. And after that, does the dragon have.

A 3000 year lifespan or is every 80 years the dragon being reincarnated into the wheel?

Bro, the wheel wheels is the wheel weaves. The uh, weaves is wheels or whatever they say all the time.

Is this Ishmael at the beginning? Is this rand at the beginning?

This is uh, no, that is Rand. That’s the dragon. That’s Luce Theron for sure.

3000 years ago.

3000 years ago. And that’s why it’s a little confusing. They call him the dragon reborn. They should just call him the dragon. He was the dragon as far as I know. I don’t think there was a dragon before him, or at least they didn’t call him the dragon before that.

Justin: The show oversimplifies dark versus light for the audience

But the fact that it’s like you find out m more along the times is like M Ishmael is kind of the human manifestation of the dark one. And Rand, or, uh, the dragon is kind of the manifestation of the light. So devil and Jesus, if you want to get really brass tacks and go black and white, if you’re a religious person, you can understand it that way. I’m not super religious, but it’s like that. It’s dark versus light and they’re really oversimplifying it for the show, which they have to. Me and my cousin were arguing about that. The scene with the aiel with Rand’s mom last, it was great. But he’s like, why does she take her veil off? And I’m like, first of all, she’s nine months fucking pregnant. And he’s like, well, but he comes back, he’s like, it wouldn’t matter to an aiel. And that’s totally true. It would not matter to an aiel. And also usually maidens when they get pregnant. If they decide to have the baby, they give up the spear for the last six months, and then they give the baby up for adoption, and then they go back to fighting. Technically, they shouldn’t be fighting that late in the pregnancy, but because of the situation, she was. He’s like, oh, well, what if know had her unveil, uh, to show that she trusted Tam? And I was like. Because I was like, it’s tv, man. You gotta have some reference on who she is. She’s freckle faced and, like, light ginger, not dark red hair. Like, the. You’re. They’re trying to show that she’s, you know. And so it’s like, yes, I understand that the lore in the aiel way and everything, but it’s like, dude, it’s a tv show. You got to have some context for the audience, especially people who don’t know the source material. Yes, because otherwise, those are the ones that you have to make like it. We’re nerds. We’re going to get bonered up about it no matter what. If you don’t make the people who don’t have any idea understand or like it, then it’s pointless. You have to do it in a way that matters to them, and I think they’re crushing it, even while I get disappointed at some point. Yeah, if you want to read the books, go read the fucking books.

Or, yeah, you’ve already read the books, and now it’s here, and I just want to make a quick correction. Justin, um, you are very religious. Your religion is just Jedi.

You’re right. Just watch. Hang on. You can smell it. Hear that, folks? I am actually a Jedi. That’s my lightsaber.

Just like that. It’s purple Stein.

Anyway, so now that we’re not even five minutes into this episode, I’m feeling nervous

Anyway, so now that we’re not even five minutes into this episode. Yeah, definitely. Like, it’s kind of like the pride before the fall. Luce Theron just thought he knew better. Yeah. He’s like, I got to do this. And it’s like, hey, you know what? If you haven’t learned anything of this first season, you need to listen to the women, because they know what’s up.

So, uh, first of all, he has a dragon on his chest

So, uh, first of all, he has a dragon on his chest, right? That’s, like, his sign. Yeah, I’m right about that.

Yeah, well, he was known as the dragon that was kind of like his sigil or whatever, but it was a nickname. It was a sigil. It was what he was known by besides his name.

And is this baby just Jesus incarnate, or is it his child? Was this child birthed?

Normally, I have no idea.

Awesome.

If you allow me to speculate, uh, I’m thinking that it was probably his child with someone named Eliena. The one that Billy Zane’s screaming. I don’t know who that baby is. I’m not sure if it has meaning. I’m sure it must have meaning, but honestly, I’m going to have to dig into that because I really don’t have a clue.

So are they just taking Rand from village to village for 3000 years

So are they just taking Rand from village to village for 3000 years to hide the fact that he’s living forever?

No, it’s not that he lives forever. He’s been reborn a few times over that time, and he’s either just been a farmer, no one’s found him. He died or went to the dark side. Ishmael talks about the trolloc wars at some point. I think he says it to Rand in this know, Ishmael’s been able to touch the world. At one point, he goes to a guy named Arthur Hawkwing, who was damn near united the whole world under his kingdom and starts to sow descent through the ayes sedai and basically breaks it.

So sorry, I keep coming back. So this baby is not.

No, no. Ishmael. He’s been fighting Ishmael the whole baby.

So again, that comes back to my original point. So this baby has lived and died a dozen or so times from this opening scene until we see him in the two rivers or until we.

Yeah, uh, well, no, this baby is. I mean, as far as I can tell, this baby doesn’t have anything to do with Rand other than, uh. Because Rand is Lou’s Theron’s soul reborn. That’s the dragon. So I don’t know what the baby has to do with anything. I don’t think it’s like a lineage thing or anything like that. It’s just like this is where this soul spits you. You know, at this know there was a place called the hall of. That’s. I think that’s where the eye of the world was. Because if you look where he kind of flashes in, it looks like the hall of servants, where the first scene takes place. And that’s kind of what’s kind of the seat of power for the eyes. Sedai, male and female. At the time, a lot of the people that first went to the dark one were because they figure out how to tap something called the true source and the true power. And it’s even more power than the regular one power. And, uh, people who were jealous of Luz Theron, that was, uh, Ishmael’s thing, is that he was very jealous of Luz Theron.

Holy crap.

So was demandred.

So what you’re telling me is I’m going to have.

You’ll meet demandred later.

So what you’re telling me is I’m going to have to keep watching to figure all this shit out.

Oh, yeah. And you better start listening to the books. Like, yesterday, I just listened to the end of the eye of the world today, and I was just, like, so jacked up for the episode tonight. I think that’s why I’m a little let down, because it was a really good episode. But I was just like, oh, man, I wanted that. And there’s no. I’m, um, still mad, guys. But then I was like, man, it was amazing. But, man, I really wish we could have had some more of this.

And I am. I’ve already.

I don’t want to ruin it for you, dude.

I’ve already downloaded it. I’m going to check that, uh, out.

Yeah.

To the listeners, I’m going to be doing my research. I’m going to actually learn some of this terminology during the offseason, and I’ll be talking to you through the whole offseason. But I really wanted to experience this first season just totally blind. I haven’t done any research outside of this podcast and watching the show, and I’ll step my game up. But, um, I think this has been a fun intro to the podcast. Just my dumb ass.

Well, no, I think keeping you one book behind is good, because, honestly, with how, like you said, they set up this thing, well, we’ll get there, I guess. God damn it. I’m getting ahead of m myself.

Okay, I think we’ve pretty much talked about the opening scene. We kind of went back and forth with it

Okay, I think we’ve pretty much talked about the opening scene. We kind of went back and forth with it, but I think we’ve gotten through it.

Yeah.

Um, now we go back to Darfala. Ah, again, folks, I’ll be working on my names and my terminology. I won’t get ahead of the books, but I will learn some of these things.

Faldara is the city. Shinar is like the state.

Uh uh.

Anyways, that’s what caused the taint right there is that luce thereon decided to go do his 100 companions with his 99 buddies, and it was all males. And that’s what settled the tain to the male half of the source. So then we get into, uh.

Then we go to the borderlands.

Uh, we go straight back to the borderlands, sitting the chopper, get in the chariot.

And this is something they don’t have.

Chariot.

Not yet.

Um, nerd I know.

I love that. At the very end of the opening scene. I love that. Pan out to the city just to see how technologically advanced, uh, they showed that we have been set back a little couple of hundred years.

Oh, yeah, exactly. You can see that it’s definitely a futuristic society. They can fly, and they have tons of technology, even though it’s magically based. More than technology based. They’re definitely a more advanced race of humans than we are.

So I think kind of a side note, but while he’s on the screen, I think part of Perrin’s problem m. I’m guessing he’s super british and he’s trying to. He sounds like he’s trying to hide an accent, but I don’t know why.

He would try to hide it. You’re, like, reading my notes, literally.

Moraine: Perrin still bothers me about the TV show

My next note is, Perrin is kind of a punk ass, and he still fucking bothers me. It’s not that I see what they’re doing because he is going to trust me by next season when he really comes into his own. Unless he. I mean, the kid’s a good actor, and for what I have, for all my acting fucking experience, you can see he’s a good actor. Um, I think they’re really trying to make Perrin this strong, silent character, which is what he is in the books, but he’s also incredibly noble and incredibly know. He’s like the moral fucking compass of the group for a long time. Rand loses his way. Rand comes back. Matt’s always kind of a fucking dickhead, but even though he ends up doing what’s right, Perrin is, like, the goodest of the good guys. He always does what’s right. And so for him to kind of be just kind of like, dude, the.

Way of the leaf is.

Yeah. You never struggled with that, dude. You know that you have to fight to live, you know?

Uh, what? M here’s my guess, and I know you can answer this if you want to. You can decide. I think he’s half O’Gear. Damn it. No, that laugh says it all. Because when he was hanging out with loyal, uh, and he seemed to be, like, almost that strong and he is a little slower and a little more deliberate and all that stuff, I was.

Like, deliberate is the word 100%. If you had to describe Peron’s character in one word, it would be deliberate. Everything he does everything. Like, he doesn’t even want to break the rules to save his wife at a later point. He’s just like, you’ve got to do it the right way. It’s like, dude, if my wife is being held captive, I’m going to fucking kill all of you.

You and you.

Especially when I can talk to wolves.

Especially you and you. Yeah, you’re pretty cool. You’re fucking cool. You’re dead.

You’re dead. Your mom’s dead. Everyone’s dead. We get to see Malkierre pretty quickly. Get to see the seven towers. Uh, that’s where land is from. But it’s been overtaken by the blight, which is pretty cool.

Oh, that’s what it was. Okay, when she said it was moving, I thought the eye was moving.

Yeah, that’s what those giant lumps of shit were.

Yeah, I thought the eye was moving, not that the blight was moving towards them. Okay, I get it now.

Sorry. I just got a text from my cousin. Real time. I think they need to change the opening to based on the wheel of time series by Robert Jordan. He’s pretty mad about stuff. He’s like, mostly I like needling you about shit because you love it so much. Just like when we were kids, he’s like, I had more issues with it. And you were always just like, I love it. Shut up.

Yeah, well, if he had issues with the books, then, yeah, of course he’s got issues with the tv show. That’s a lose lose, baby.

I, uh, know.

Again, this is a tv show thing. They always have to do weird, vague things to keep us interested and keep us guessing, but moraine, fucking. Just open your mouth, moraine. Why do you have to drag him through the blight and just be like, yeah, there’s some shit over here, but we’ll figure it out. Whatever.

I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going. Do you know? I don’t know. Even Rand says you have a fucking plan within a plan within a plan every time. And now you’re like, I don’t know. Uh, where’s the lemon spread? Are you hungry? I don’t know.

So she finally does. Just like, all right, uh, we got this thing that all of the. Or a male aesidai put all of their power into this object and went, no. Okay.

No. So sorry. I should let you finish. That was rude.

No, there’s no reason I should take our audience down a totally wrong road.

An angry all increases the power that you can channel unaided

So here’s what it’s not. It’s not this. No. Think, uh, of it as. It’s, like, an object of power. There are three different kinds. There are angryls, which generally just kind of increase the power that you can channel unaided. And they really did a good job of showing that in this episode. We’ll get to that, too, because if you try to, it’s like sweet life. It’s like, oh, man, I just want one more drink. It’s like you’re going to fucking have a headache in the morning if you drink that. But you’ll kill yourself or you’ll burn the ability to channel out of yourself if you try to draw too much. And so an angry all can let you maybe double your strength. A saw angry all can do anything from double your strength to 300 times your strength for your DND 300 x, baby. For your dnders out there. It’s like a multiplier, basically. And then there are tur angry all, which are usually made for a specific use, whether it’s entering the world of dreams or traveling or healing, or you channel into them a certain way, and that’s what they do. That’s the only thing that they’re good for.

So, uh, they’re simultaneously working their way through the blight to get to the eye of the world. While fad, Bala, dafraffel, whatever that city’s name is, is.

Faldara, you dick. Falafel. I don’t know. What the fuck? Where are they again? I don’t know. They’re just somewhere.

They are ready to kick ass. And I can’t believe they only had. I mean, they only had three channelers until iguin and.

Oh, God, Nynaeve, that’s so fucked up. See, that’s a major departure from the books is that when they go to the know, everybody’s there. So that’s definitely a change. But, I mean, I see why they did it that way. The way it would have been pretty confusing to try to finish it like they did in the book. Like, I’ve read the book multiple times, and it’s still kind of like, okay, what was happening exactly? Uh, you get the whole speech from lan about how I can’t be the man you want, and it’s a very condensed version of the speech of why. Uh. Uh, it’s not you, it’s me type of thing.

Yeah. And I’m trying to figure out where we want to go from here. I almost just want to jump to. Yeah. So they take a little break. Uh, she realizes they’re very close to the eye.

Whoa, you have the.

Yeah, yeah. And she’s like, I forget. They kind of get to the eye before they get to the.

Yeah, they. They take a little break by Malkyre. So you can see the seven towers and that’s just a little nod to the book because they, uh, kind of rest by Malkierre and it’s overtaken by the blight. And then you get the whole scene with Nynaeve and that hopefully that wets the book reader’s whistle because he has this whole speech, which he says a lot of the same stuff, but he’s just know I have nothing to give you but a war I can’t win. She’s like, some people just want the man. He’s just basically like, nah, um, I’m already pledged in moraine and I’m not good enough for you, basically. And she’s like, whatever, but, uh, I don’t know, the little sawing reel that she gave him. I almost think it might be a link to this other thing called a chodenkal, which is like the most powerful saw angry for men ever made. It’s like a link to a bigger one. I don’t know if it is or not, but it’d be really cool if it was just a little note. But then know, they head back to the blight and they’re like, oh, we’re going to take a break. And then Rand falls asleep and Moraine gets stabbed in her mouth.

Yes, she is. You’ve been kind of talking about this. We’ve seen it a little bit, but now there’s officially a dream world where stuff can happen.

And if something happens in the world of dreams, it’s real. So the fact that rand kind of stabbed himself was kind of like, oh, usually stuff that happens in the world of dreams is real. So that’s a little like, okay. But it’s all in whatever the person is kind of making it in their image to do. Obviously, he made himself look because that’s.

Kind of a power move, too. Like, if he’s that powerful, he can cut himself out of a dream.

Yeah, or just wake up. That’s a way to wake himself up.

Can we just talk about the casting for Ishamel

And the fact that we finally get this casting. Can we just talk about the casting? That guy’s sinister as fuck for Ishamel. He’s a good villain.

Does he maintain. I know for tv they need an actor to play him. Does he maintain the same form that much in the book?

Uh, for a little while longer. He still goes, balls. And then with the eyes of fire for like, one more book. Okay. And then he goes away for a while, and then he comes back, uh, with a different, uh, he looks different when he comes back.

Rand is getting like, this is why Moraine was so coy for movie viewers, because now that Rand is figuring this all out in real time, along with his viewers, which is pretty cool, and he’s like, okay, what’s going on here? Uh, this is serious. This guy’s not to be fucked with. And I need to start getting into.

Because, you know, at this point, they did a good job of Rand realizing he’s the guy, but still going, like, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do because as they’re going to the eye of the world, they still don’t really know. I mean, Rand kind of suspects, but everybody else is kind of like, we’re just kind of going to the spot. Uh, we don’t really know what we’re supposed to do.

Well, he kind of gets mad at Moraine for a second for thinking that it was, uh. You think it was Igwen or Nynaeve? He kind of gets mad. He’s like, you thought it was her, didn’t you?

What do you. Yeah, I’m not sure. What was that about? And she just kind of like stares off and I don’t really know what that look is supposed to mean. She’s like, maybe. Yeah, I think maybe because she could. I think they just did that so that it’s foreshadowing, so that you can see how truly strong she is. Because, um, that she is like a female equivalent to rand as far as strength and the power. And dude, if her story arc, like I said, she’s not the most loyal character. She’s annoying sometimes, but she’s a tough girl and her story arc’s really good and it has to do with who we see at the end of the episode. So I really hope they stick with that because it also adds to her strength and the power and her just force of will.

Uh, the will.

Well, say, they talk about the power just like Moraine says. Like, look, if your life’s in danger, you’re going to.

Thank. I’m glad you brought that up because that’s why he gets mad. Because she was teaching her how to channel and didn’t teach him shit, and so he got mad. Uh, and then Moraine tells the story about how she couldn’t channel until someone basically came and whipped her with all kinds of powers. Until she was so mad she had no choice. And she passes that knowledge on to rand as to say, like, when you need to channel, you’ll channel. And here, take this too.

That’s kind of funny because usually that’s a story from, uh, what they would call naive as a wilder. She’s managed to channel a few times and not really access it consciously. She’ll kind of just do it as, like, you see her in the ways. Just kind of, like, bust out because their lives are in danger. Same thing. That’s what Maureen’s talking about with Rand. But, um, if you’re a wilder, usually you create a block for yourself, whether it’s like you have to cry to channel or. Nynaeve has to generally be angry or feel really powerful emotions. And then she just goes nuts. But sounds like they’re almost making out. Know, some, uh, novices when they’re going through training will get a know because they’re homesick or just whatever. And so that was how they kind of broke Moraine’s block, was know, beating the shit out of her.

You’re gonna channel bitch. I’m guessing that was either Lorraine or her lover.

If it comes out, I bet it’ll be, um, chick. She’s the mistress of novices.

Oh, there we go. The mistress of novices. Why don’t I have a cool title like that?

You can have one.

Yeah.

I’m the mister of orange hats.

Yes. Right there, everybody. There’s my orange hat.

No pants. Podcasting at its finest.

Ishamel traps Rand in a dream shard while he’s sleeping

They go down into the eye, and things start coming back to Randy’s. Like, um, I’ve been here before. This is all just a little bit too familiar. What’s, uh, going on? And I forget, do they see, does Ishamel make an appearance before they go into dream world, or does he go into the dream world? And that’s what makes Ishamel appear.

It’s like what he traps him in while he’s sleeping is called a dream shard. When Maureen gets stabbed in the face. This is kind of a version of.

But, like, when they’re in the eye, he just takes just. He just basically puts him to sleep in the eye, doesn’t he? Like, Rand doesn’t take a nap.

Yeah, kind of. It’s just like he’s overwhelmed with the power, what’s going on, and immediately it’s like he kind of sucks him into the world of dreams, and that’s where he can be his most powerful at this time, because he’s not free free yet. Uh, so that’s where he can really affect stuff. And that’s why Moraine can’t see what’s going on, because he kind of sucks him into telling Riyadh in the world of dreams, and then he creates that. That’s just as dangerous as a nightmare of trollocks, is that if you find a dream that you’re happy and you don’t want to leave, that’s just as dangerous as a nightmare that you die in, is you find the life that you always wanted and you decide to stay there.

Oh, my gosh. This is funneling in.

So.

Well, I just got recommended a book last night where a guy basically does that. Like, he figures out a way to escape to a better life and his dreams, and so then he just spends the rest of his life in this weird dream state.

Yeah, it’s a little inceptiony, but I think that what will happen is that your body would die eventually.

Waking and eating is good people.

Yeah, you must eat the foods.

So there’s dual scenes going on with Ishmael in the real world talking to Moraine, and then in the dream world, talking to Rand. Uh, and Moraine puts a dagger to Rand’s neck and just says, I will kill him. Like, she’s basically like, if he chooses dark, I’m slitting his throat.

Yeah, you don’t get. You’ll still be strapped here.

And Ishamel is like, you don’t know what he’s picking. I have him somewhere else choosing a side, and you don’t know what it is. Do you really want to slice his throat if he chooses? Good. And so she’s conflicted. Rand is getting shown his perfect world, the world that got taken from him when Gwen decided to become a wisdom.

Yeah. Or no, dude, that’s what would happen if she decided to become a wisdom. But because she wants to go become an AES sedai now, he’s like, I know this isn’t what she wants. That’s how he saw through the lie. Because he’s like, I don’t care what was, uh, offered to Egwene. She wants to be an AES sedai. That’s the fact. And that’s the one thing that he actually goes. No, because he would have bought everything else, but he was like, no, dude, I know the woman I love does.

Not want this, and I’m not going to force it on her. Yeah, I could take over the world. And so what you’re saying, this isn’t said in the book, but he would be trapped in this dream world if he chose that, basically.

But the thing is, they’re really just foreshadowing, actually how powerful rand is. He’s not even really a human, and he doesn’t know mean he is, but it’s like he can. Like Ishmael said, he’s like, you just look it and will it and eventually, ran gets so powerful that, oh, geez, there’s my tobacco and my pipe in my hand. Oh, do I have a matchstick? Oh, it’s just he. All he has to do is think it, and it’s life. That’s what he’s trying to foreshadow, how strong he really is and what he’s really capable of. But I think they really had to. What’s the word I’m looking for? Like, baby bird us information. Because if they really tried to go all in eye of the world, so many people’s eyes would have just rolled back in their heads and, like, dove, uh, hail, mother Mary, Grace. What’s happening? Where am. It’s. It’s too much, man, to try to pack into eight episodes. And so the things that they nailed to set up to all the rest.

Of stuff is perfect.

And God damn it, we got to see uno say, burn their goat kissing hides. I want to kiss that guy. He’s so great. Guy Roberts, if you’re listening, I love you. I hope that you didn’t, um, um, know, back to the, uh. They’re all setting up for know. We’re going to go to Tarwin’s gap, and we’re all going to die. We know we’re going to die, but that’s okay. Yeah, but that’s what the borderlands are like. If you’re a Game of Thrones fan, think of it as the night watch man. They guard the realms of men, and if the Baddies get past there, it’s open season.

And, yeah, like you said, they’re like, yeah, we’re definitely going to die, but we’re going to slow them down and hopefully give other people, if nothing better, a chance to say goodbye to their loved ones.

Yeah. One of the things I’m stoked about is, um, I’m like, they think it’s tarmangaidon, but it’s not. Moraine actually said that at the end of the episode.

That’s right.

But if that’s the craziest threat from the character’s point of view, that’s the craziest threat you’ve ever been faced. Mean m, what else would you.

Totally.

They were definitely foreshadowing Moraine’s death in the show

So, yeah, so Rand’s kind of figuring it all in real time in dreamland. He’s just like, okay, I think that.

Is the seat of power for the AES sedai that they’re in. That is the eye of the world, quote unquote, because it just looks the same.

Oh, okay, that makes sense. And you don’t really know what’s going on like, uh, uh, Ishamel’s just kind of fucking with Moraine, showing her just how powerful he is, and jump to the end. He takes her fucking power.

He stills her, dude. And that does not happen in the books. And. No, so they were definitely foreshadowing her death. So I actually kind of was, like, almost believing that that was it for her. When she got stabbed in the dream shard, I was like, oh, is she really dead? So they were foreshadowing really good. I did not see that happening. Getting still, but I think that’s okay. But that gives them the reason to break the bond with her and land earlier than the book, because it’s a show. They got to ship them, man, like, naive, and land. They’ve got to be together, and he needs to be her water. That’s just it.

So we’ll jump back to the other battle here for a minute

So we’ll jump back to the other battle here for a minute before we finish on the eye of the world stuff.

Yeah, hold on. Let me look at notes. Yeah, totally.

The men are charging forward into the gap to kill as many of these trollocs as they possibly can. While, like I said, I thought they were going to have quite a crew while these five. Well, three women, and then thankfully, Iguin and Nynaeve joined them. Five women show, uh, to thankfully, almost fucking not thankfully.

Jesus.

Holy crap.

So, yeah, they definitely, like, the women in general in this show, are just crazy tough badasses like the shinar. And women are like, getting the catapults ready and shit. It’s on.

Yeah, it’s really cool. This battle is awesome. Classic trollocs climbing up the wall. Like, any good bad guys are willing to take as many losses as it takes to breach the castle.

Like, battlefield management is not the shadow strong point. You’ll find out some of them are tacticians. Most of them are just like, I don’t know, send all the trolley. They’re gross anyway. Just go.

Trollocs are gross.

They like to do stuff and eat. Just go. It’s fine. Well, ah. And one of the things that I’m a little disappointed that they. I mean, I guess they really haven’t had a chance to. But sometimes fades, the eyelids are kind of bonded, almost like AES sedai water style. So if you kill a fade, sometimes, like, hunter trollocks will drop because they’re bonded to them. So I don’t know if they’ve ever covered that in the show yet, but that’s something that I hope eventually can get you out of a jam.

They washed over it a little bit in this one, when they mentioned how many fades there are to trollocs, you definitely get the idea that there’s some kind of a connection there. And I forgot. I kept on thinking, like, uh, do we have to go back to the battle? Like, they fight, blah, blah, blah. But, yes, while they’re fighting, a bunch of people are digging up, uh, digging the horn of all horns, the horn that shall only be blown for the last battle.

Right. The horn of valir. And, dude, the horn of Valer is pretty cool.

Yeah, we haven’t seen it yet. We’ve seen the box they keep it in. Yeah, we haven’t seen it. And my premonition finally came true. That fucking trinket, uh, salesman has finally shown his allegiance.

You motherfucker paid in fein.

You motherfucker paid in feign.

And that guy’s a whole, like, he’s like another whole other kind of dark. Like, they steal the horn for sure. They stab. Like, if he’s dead, I quit. Um, and then ingtar and Uno get stabbed up, too. And I’m sure that they’re major characters, so I’m sure that they will all be okay. But, uh, yeah, Fane takes off, and this is just setting up next season. Fane takes off with the horn and the dagger. The thing about the dagger.

Oh, when did he get the dagger?

They only show it for a second. He stole it from. He’s. I’m pretty sure that Leandrin is his contact. I’m pretty sure Leandrin gave it to him because Marin probably took it to the tower, and then someone, whoever block aja is there, stole it from the tower, gave it to Fane, probably gave him the little leaf turangriel to challenge through the ways, because apparently that’s a thing. I saw that on the, uh, x ray thing. There’s a little, uh, avandosauru leaf turangrial. If you’re a non channeler, that’s how you can go on the ways.

It’s getting so good.

I know. It’s such a nerd boner festival. It’s like I said, it’s like, if you don’t know what’s going on, it’s like it makes you want to learn or go. This is too in depth for me. I know.

I had some people ask me last night. They’re like, should we watch it? And for this particular people, this isn’t the advice I would give to everybody. But I was like, wait until season two is done and then binge it all. I want people to get into this show. I want them to enjoy it, but there’s a, uh, certain kind of people that, yeah. Would just be like. Because I think, and I trust you, that they’re going awesome places. But this eight episodes of set up I could see be really frustrating for certain people. Um, and I would, if I was just watching this, if I didn’t know you and I had no idea about the books and I just threw it on, I’d be like, this is cool.

But not really sure where they’re going.

I’ll come back to it next season.

And see what happens. Yeah, well, and I think that it was smart of him because literally the horn of a lira gets stolen, the dagger. So it’s like Matt’s going to have to go find the dagger. Ran kind of goes off on his own, but they send rand hunting the horn as well. So then the boys join back up and then it’s like they’re setting up for everyone to go different directions next season. And that’s good because while Nynaeve and Iguin head to the tower, those baddies that showed up at the end, they run into those fuckers and it gets they.

I think they’re setting it up. For people, uh, who aren’t in the know of things

I think they’re setting it up. They had to do a lot of setup for what will know. I think if they look at season one and two as one when they’re done, it’s going to be much more like, oh, yeah. For people, uh, who aren’t in the know of things.

Set it up and hit it out of the park.

Yeah. A little more standalone. Yeah, for sure.

So the trollocs are charging the castle with their power

So the trollocs beat the shit out of all of the men and are charging the castle. And our five women, there’s one. Is she a more powerful AES sedai or is she just taking lead? Is she just the general? Is she a badass?

This pisses me off, actually. Uh, no, she’s not a badass, actually. She’s someone who, and I don’t know if this is so in the books, but she’s studied in the tower, but she wasn’t strong enough, and they definitely foreshadow this scene. She wasn’t strong enough to become a sister, but she knows how to channel, so she knows how to link as well. And when you link, it’s sort of like you’re using the other people who can channel as like a fucking battery pack. And if you try to do too much with the battery pack, you’re going to trip a breaker. And that’s why the people start dying, because she gets drunk on the power and she’s just like, oh, she’s, like, just coming in her pants because she’s never felt so much power, especially being linked to Nynaeve and, like, being linked to, what was it, four people? Being linked to four other people, even if they could barely channel, would be, like, increasing her power fivefold. And how strong iguine and Nynaeve are. It’s like turning. I don’t know how to describe, but it’s like a nine volt battery versus a supercharger or something. It’s just like, she’s like, I’ve never felt so much power. And Nynaeve and Egwene are so strong on their, like, it’s crazy. She’s plugged into the, you know, she’s in the matrix, dude, and she’s sucking all the juice. The one chick, she burns her out, she dies. The other chick burns her out, and she dies, and she basically is about to burn out, uh, Egwene and Nynaeve. And I think Nynaeve does something that kind of, like, if they were trained, they could have cut the link. And so I think Nineveh kind of does that enough to where when it snaps back, it releases egwene, which why she is not hurt and just fries Emily Lisa completely at that point, because suddenly she doesn’t have the extra. It just goes right through her and just burns her reversed.

Nynaeve reverses the current.

And so kind of that’s basically a good way to look at it.

So Nynaeve kind of saves, uh, doesn’t feel.

She heals her.

Yeah, she doesn’t feel awesome that Nynaeve sacrificed herself for egwene. And so then iguin, like, everybody right now who can’t just use their power at will. She is sad and mad and all of those things and manages to bring Nynaeve back from the.

They’re really. They’re really pushing the power as a. It’s a thing of need. If you’re know each, like I said, we’ll get into all of this. Believe me already. But each person you can channel has certain talents with a capital t, and sometimes it’s healing, and sometimes there’s tons of talents. Logan’s talent. He can see Taviran, so he sees a glow around people who are Taveran, which is, like, there’s not a lot of them. So that’s kind of a lame talent. But, like, obviously.

And Meg with her super awesome ability to grow her fingernails.

The n stands for nerd. Your favorite movie is books, and. Yeah. So I think that they’re going to probably write in that that was one of the seals that basically got broken, that rand. And they were kind of standing on that piece of stone that she’s kind of holding up at the end. It’s quendiar or whatever. It’s supposed to be unbreakable.

So Rand is. He’s figuring it all out. He’s in the dream. He realizes that this is not what the woman he loves wants. And he starts to channel sidine and saidar all at once.

No, just.

What’s. What’s the black and white called?

So it’s just when you see the black, that’s just them representing the male half and the madness, the taint.

I thought it had a different name.

Though, from the dark one.

I thought it had a different name.

No, it’s just Saidara is the female half, but they’re just showing you the difference otherwise.

Rand is channeling taint. He’s doing something, but it’s nothing visible

Uh.

All right, well, then I’m just going to. I was trying not to say light and dark again, but I may have to just. So he is channeling light.

Taint.

He is channeling taint. He’s channeling all through his taint, all the way from under himself, gathering.

That’s the most powerful way.

Gathering the power.

No pants. No pants. Taint to the sky.

And Ishamel realizes, like, he’s not falling for it. Yeah, he’s not falling for it. And then moraine sees. What’s it called, the trinket glowing in his pouch that she passed down to him for extra power. She sees that glow.

The saw angry.

The saw angryl and she’s like, oh, yeah, he’s doing exactly what I told him. And then I don’t remember what happens, honestly. I’m going to watch the scene. I’m actually right at that scene. He’s showing the. Oh, in the dream and in the eye, he’s doing the same thing. He’s just like, I’m on to you, motherfucker.

Yeah, he just kind of, like, vaporizes old boy Ishmael. He just kind of, like, wishes him away. It’s not even that he’s channeling. He’s doing something, but it’s nothing visible, per se.

Okay. And that’s what causes the crack. That much is he. I know we might be giving something away, but is Ishmael dead?

Not completely.

Okay, I didn’t think so. He’s more of an idea even than a, uh, thing.

No, he’s been wounded. Like, he’s wounded, for know. Spoiler alert. They get into another fight at the end of the next book. But it’s, um, uh, the great hunts. They get into another fight, and he keeps kind of haunting it because Rand’s like, oh, I’ve won. But it’s like he starts getting dogged by morphos forsaken. And Rand’s journey is really depressing. Hey, get on board, guys. The show is incredibly depressing.

Keep tuning in week after week. You ready to cry?

Watch the wheel of time, because it’s going to make you fucking ball your eyes out.

Thank the.

So.

And then Rand walks away. He says, he tells Moraine, tell everyone I died.

Yeah.

He said, do me a favor, tell him I died. She says, I can’t lie. He’s like, you’ll figure it out. You conniving?

Well. And those are actually some of the things that I hate and love at the same time because I’m like, God damn it, this is earlier than the books and it’s not the same. Great, now what? But then you wait for a second, and then you’re like, oh, great, now what the fuck? Where’s Min going? Or is she going to link up with Rand way early and, oh, man. Those are for the offseason pods because.

We’Re going to get deep all spring and summer long. But we’ll take a deep dive next week. We’re going to keep this one a little bit short just so I can turn it around for tomorrow. We’ll talk for a little bit more. We’ll close it up. But just for the listeners out there, there’s going to be a lot of loose ends to clean up and we have a lot of time to deal with them, so don’t worry about it.

Well, before we close this off, the motherfuckers that showed up in the ships. Oh, that poor little girl. That poor little girl just got fucking apocalypto. Bye. So real quick, I hope she could swim before we leave.

Too many loose ends. Yes, we’ll get.

For next season, everyone’s going their separate direction

So Rand takes off. Lan finds Moraine. Moraine says, I’ve been stilled. Iguin and Nynaeve are. So we got Rand, Matt, Perrin, and Nynaeve and Iguin look like they’re going to stay together for a minute, but we’ve got. At least it doesn’t look like Perrin’s going to go with them.

Matt and Tarvala.

Well, right. I’m just saying, like, for next season, everyone’s going to be going their separate direction because Perrin’s not going to go with Nyve and Iguin busy. He’s going to be chasing or I don’t know what he’s going to do.

But see, that’s what I’m saying. That’s what I mean about the. Now what? I got to start reading the great hunt again because it’s like, if I remember right, uh, Matt’s in Tarvalin, or has to go to Tarvalin, and so they end up like the girls, and I can’t remember, like I said, it’s been so long since I read those ones, but I thought Perrin and Matt and Rand all take off after the horn, and Iguin and Nynaeve start heading towards the tower.

So I’m guessing Perrin’s going to go after the horn, Iguin and Nynaeve are going to go to the towers, Rand’s off fucking around, and Matt’s going to Tarvalin.

Well, matt’s in Tarvalin, so I don’t know. Or he’s going to go down there. But no, that’s what saying, like, those are things. It’s like, um. I’m kind of like, well, what about that? I’m like, well, dude, what are they going to do? So I’m super excited. And then I don’t know how they’re going to reunite. And Matt and Rand definitely have a lot of time in the books together. Perrin has time with them, too, and the fact that moraine’s not going to be channeling. They’re together a lot. Matt and they separate for a while, but Matt and Rand and lan, they get back together after a while. Um, and so I’m just like, uh, what’s going to happen next? I can’t wait to see.

Yeah, everything’s going to happen next.

Next week’s episode is called the return. So stay tuned for that

And then, yeah, so then we cut out of there and we fade in to this armada of something. Me, as the uninitiated, have no fucking idea what’s going on here. There’s a bunch of women in a bunch of boats, and they’re all powerful.

Yeah. So, little teaser, without giving too much away, these people are called the Sean chan, and they are the descendants of Arthur Hawkwing. I don’t know if they’ve brought him up too much yet. He was someone who basically almost had the whole world united under his rule, and then it all came crumbling down because of Ishmael whispering in his ear. He sent his armors to the armies, to the other side of the world, and they have come back, and they took Archer Hawkwing’s dislike of AES sedai and people who channel because of Ishmael, and they have stepped it up and if you see their collared, they have gags in their mouths. And that’s what they do to women who can channel in Shanchan. They’re used as weapons and healers, and they’re treated like pets or slaves, depending on how you look at it. Some of them are treated nicely. Some of them are treated really terribly. And most of them are really treated just like worse than you would treat anything on earth. They’re terrible. And the Sean Chan are definitely warlike, very strong. And they’re coming back to take over Arthur Hawk Twing’s realm. And they have no idea what’s going on over here as far as eye of the world or any of that shit.

They have to. If they’re that powerful, they got a clue.

No, they had their own empire, and they decided to come back and take what was rightfully theirs. It’s called the return. They’re not bad guys, per se. It’s like. It’s from a certain point of view.

Yeah, it’s kind of cool. That guy. And also, uh. Uh. Parfaw is. Damn it, I’m going to fuck this all up. The trinket salesman.

Peyton Fein.

Peyton Fein. He thinks he’s doing the right thing. He’s like, no, I’m saving the world. You guys are trying to destroy it. And at least that’s how I read.

Definitely. They’re trying to inform. That’s how Ishamel feels. He’s really starting into it. It’s like we’ve had this battle more times than I could count. I’ve ground you to dust before you were even out of your teens, and you’ve almost won, but you’ve never won. And you’ve lived lives of significance. You’ve lived lives of insignificance. And I keep fucking having to deal with it, and I want it to end, basically. And that’s how the dark friends kind of feel. It’s like we’ll just have nothingness then. It’s like a nihilist kind of point of view, I suppose. We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing.

If everyone will just kneel to me, we can have peace.

We’ll cut off your Johnson, Lebowski.

The, uh, boysenberry. Uh, pancakes.

Lincolnberry pancakes. She cut off a toe.

Lincolnberry Pancake.

Who gives a fuck about the fucking toe?

I’ll suck a cock for $1,000.

Or some pancakes. I want waffles. Waffles?

Yeah. So we’re going to leave it there, people. Like I said. I know you’re like. But we have a lot of time to talk about a lot of stuff. And like I said, next week we’re just going to go ham. I won’t have to turn that episode around as fast. So we’ll be able to chat a little bit longer and it’ll be great. And then I want to do, uh, commentary tracks. I just think that’s going to be fun and we have a lot of time to fill and I think that’s going to be unique out there, people. So stay tuned for that.

Time pop is making a triumphant return January 6 with Tenet

Any last thing you want to tell the people, Justin? Anything we missed?

Yeah, no, just like you were saying, right know, we’re going to talk Sean chan. We’re going to talk about Moraine’s arc now that she’s been stilled. Um, what forsaken may or may not show up have been cut out of the show. The horn of Valir and what it does. Oh, just like you said, commentary on the episodes, just predictions. Once I go through the great hunt on things that I hope to see or might see or you know what, the guys hit me up at Parchdaleman and tell us what you want to talk about, if there’s something you want to see. And tell us why. Because, dude, uh, by the way, anyone who is listening that does follow on Twitter, the Twitter of time people. You guys are the best. So much fun. Very positive. I’ve been waiting to talk about this shit with people for fucking 20 years. And it’s fun, man, and it’s awesome and I love it. And you guys rock and keep keeping on. I hope we can do this for a lot of years because it’s super fun, awesome, hell.

And who’s the cast member that’s following us?

Uh, uno follows us, man. Guy Roberts, baby.

Guy Roberts. Thank you very much.

Yes, I have arrived. My goal in life is over.

Hell yeah. The big follow. While you’re waiting for more, thank the light, check out some other podcasts. We have all the answers. Truth, not trends. Time pop is making a triumphant return January 6. We got lots of past episodes if you want to check out some time travel stuff. But January 6, time pop is back with Tenet. And be brave. Awesome. Go to. We go to wherever you listen to podcasts to check that out or come over to whatsome.com for your hub of what sounds awesome.

Desmond: This is the project we needed. It’s so worth the wait

May the last embrace of your mother welcome you home.

No, the mother. The mother, baby. No, your mother. Peace favor your sword, motherfuckers. May you always find water and shade.

The king Fisher flashes above the pond.

That’s a sword form, apparently.

You don’t know.

That’s what it said in the book. These are my bible.

Go read the Bible. I’m watching a television show.

These are better than the Bible. It’s how I based who I should be as a dad and a father and a husband.

Oh, that’s awesome. I just watch sitcoms.

Well, I mean that, too, but not friends.

Thank you all out there for joining us through this awesome season, and we have so, so much more. I hope you’ve enjoyed it. I hope you continue to enjoy it. I love you all. Happy, merry Christmas. Oh, yeah.

Have a good holiday, you fuckers. Merry Christmas. We love you.

Fuck Christmas. Tomorrow’s my birthday. Happy birthday.

No shit. Happy birthday, des. I love you, man.

Thank you.

I’m so glad we’re doing this together, brother.

Uh, this is one of those things I wanted to force two, uh, years ago so bad, and it was so worth the wait. This was the project we needed.

It’s so funny because I wanted to beg you to do something two years ago, but I’m like, uh, he’s got stuff. He’s busy.

I got stuff.

But like you said, it was something like, dude, the passion I have for the show and everything, it’s like, I love it a lot, and so it’s easy to talk about it. And I’m just so stoked that so many other people are going to get to, they’re going to be able to share it now. And there’s a lot of people who haven’t read the books that will probably go read them, and it just makes it better because it’s just another way of telling the story. And then you get to see even more background to it as you read the book, so it’s really cool.

Read a book, people.

Yeah, read a book. Seriously. They’re good.

I am not average. I am not, uh, ordinary. I am a masterpiece, you know, I do it for me. I am not perfect. No, that’s imaginary. But I’m a masterpiece, you know, I do it for me. And all my colors and paints all my lines and my shapes, every move that I make. I am not basic. It’s self explanatory. I I’m a masterpiece, you know, I do it for me just the way I like it. Yeah.

You still there?

Uhoh. Did I lose you?

Come back to me, justin. Uh, mixed and edited by desmond McNeese for we mixed it llc, go to whatsoundsum.com.